RE: last chance to fully receive Ralf Vandebergh's high-res sat images

From: Paul Grace (
Date: Wed May 25 2011 - 20:04:26 UTC

  • Next message: "Re: last chance to fully receive Ralf Vandebergh's high-res sat images"

    Mr. Mehring, perhaps you are right as to what Björn meant, perhaps not.
    However, new rules have been implemented, they are no longer suggestions for
    discussion.  See the rules for details.
    Second, the number of image posters has dropped by about 33%, in direct
    response to the new rules.  If one or two more people decides to leave (we
    don't know if that will happen), then there will be about zero.
    As for mailboxes filling up with 'noise', a rule such as "image posts must
    contain [image] in the subject" would permit trivial machine filtering, so
    that's not a factor.
    -----Original Message-----
    [] On Behalf Of
    Markus Mehring
    Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 11:58
    Subject: Re: last chance to fully receive Ralf Vandebergh's high-res sat
    On Wed, 25 May 2011 10:43:27 -0700, you ("Paul Grace"
    <>) wrote:
    >The decency?  It's somehow indecent to withhold photos?
    I think what Björn meant was that it would be nice to have a quick
    pointer in case there is new material. Considering English isn't his
    first language, I'd give him the benefit of doubt that "decency" isn't
    precisely the word he had in mind. This is an international list, and
    communication between members often happens under the complications of a
    language barrier, not to mention cultural differences regarding tone and
    style of expression, and then its perception on the other side.
    >May I remind everyone of the process that led us here?  Some members of the
    >SeeSat mail list decided they want to create additional restrictions on any
    >uploaded photos, up to and including suggestions that all rights to the
    >images should be surrendered to the public domain!!!
    Suggestions are just that: merely suggestions. They were discussed and
    ultimately not implemented, so that's not a factor. After all, anyone
    who maybe wasn't thrilled about the proposed set of rules was welcome to
    speak up and offer input.
    SeeSat-L has a long history of maintaining a policy of being concise and
    to the point, without much ado and as little noise as possible. This,
    and the standard of reporting, is what has made the community output of
    this very much specialized niche so high-quality and successful.
    You can't please all the people all the time. Some people feel alienated
    by tight posting requirements, others feel alienated by too much noise
    in their e-mail inbox. We've had cases of both here in the past.
    >As a semi-professional photographer, I could not imagine submitting my work
    >under such restrictions.  You get to have my raw images?  Any sequence has
    >to include 30 seconds on either side of the capture?  It's preposterous.
    We're dealing with a very special case of photography here, where
    post-processing of sequences of photos is more or less unavoidable.
    Knowing what and how the source material was prior to the processing,
    and what processing exactly had been applied, is important for the
    understanding of the final result. With that in mind, it is rather
    helpful to have a unified standard of reporting in place so that results
    are better understood and more comparable.
    Besides, the new policy doesn't state that those raw images have to be
    "surrendered" or made publicly available along with their rights or
    anything to that effect. It actually offers the loophole to just state
    that source data is "available upon request", which couldn't be much
    simpler. If anyone finds themselves unable to post according to such
    simple standards, then that's too bad but so be it. It's their choice.
    It surely won't stop them from their activities, and their results will
    have an audience no less. After all, only rather few of the people who
    take such hires satellite photos have in fact ever posted here, rules or
    no rules.
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